Why wud u accept something as true tho if there is no opposing view. I can makeup anything and say since there is no else opposing view point, my claim is the truth. I say that outside of the observable universe its all turtles. That does not make it true just because there is no other evidence of anything else. Its a debate about facts not what ifs. This is a classic appeal to ignorance fallacy.

Yeah exactly. Thats the point. There is no record of Aisha herself saying her age was 9 at marriage. Nor is there any hadith from medina (where the marriage took place) that mentions aisha age. Only more than a generation later, in Iraq, someone who has poor memory, claimed that he has “heard” from someone else that Aisha said she is 9. So there is no reason to believe him over anyone else. Its a babble. No one knows Aishas age for sure. Historians and timeline analysis say she was 19-20. Pedophiles and Islamophobes say she was 9. People can choose to accept whatever they want. There is no good debate.

That paragraph is supposes to highlight the difference between hadith from the prophet vs haditths that are just oral collections from diff ppl. The author is saying here that the hadith does not carry the same weight as other bukhari hadiths because its not attributed to the prophet and is merely an oral claim by hisham(someone who has memory issues) that “someone said that Aisha said she was 9”

You are quoting the ending parts of the article which have nothing to do with the original argument it presents and simply is there to cleanup and establish the new status quo, and these tiny “things” whatever you call them are meaningless in the context of the greater discussion.

The symbolic part is discussed all through the article (for eg age 40 as a symbol for being wise, and for extra info age 70 in islamic world is considered the timeline for eternity(sorry if I cant explain it well, english aint my first language, but for eg u say to smone like “bro why r u so weak, r u already 70yo?”)

You not liking it does not change the fact that ages were used a lot more for symbolism back then than the actual time since the person has been born. There were no objectively correct ways of knowing smones birthdate back then except for word of mouth (if ppl cared to remember, because islam uses the lunar calendar, its much more complicated to track birthdays and date than how we do today)

Why not quote some of the earlier longer parts about timeline inconsistencies and sectarian incentives, those are up for discussion.

Well you have a point. But I would suppose that the idea is child marriage was a very common thing even upto the last century, and is still common today in less developed parts of the world. Since no one considered it an issue, no one questioned the particular hadiths either. Also there is no “centuries of scholarship” done specifically on Aishas age, it was a hadith that everyone ran with because there were no reason for ppl to doubt it. Islamic jurisprudence were about laws and ethics, not history. And whatever scholarly work has been done have pointed strongly to the idea Aisha was not 9. (Even tho ibn-kathir, in the 1300s, ran into timeline issues and has reported about how Aishas age dont match up, and the timeline that he compiled suggested aisha was in her late teens. So it is technically mot even true that no one had any issues before the west pointed it out)

I find it weird that everyone is getting so defensive here, quick to calling it apologia and bullshit. You are allowed to believe whatever you want about Islam (or christianity, or religion itself). But what I was just trying to point out in my original reply that not all muslims especially in the west and academia today, agree or accept the fact Aisha was 9. Again many still do. But it does not really help that the excuse is used by Islamophobes all around the world. Its the same as quoting the worse parts of Talmud and calling every jew a violent person. Even though most prolly never though abt it and might be conflicted if u tell this, or outright deny its supposed to be taken literally, or contextualize whatever. You can say that is all apologia, so whatever really ig, at the end people just believe whatever they want to believe, and hurling insults and accusing them of promoting child rape is unlikely to bring a change in their worldview.

Not really. Saying there is ‘no debate’ isn’t actually factually accurate. While some traditional sources mention that age, there is a massive amount of historical and academic scholarship that suggests otherwise. The claim of age 9 have been used by bad faith actors on all sides. (Some fanatics to justify child marriage, and other fanatics who think their religion/group of people are superior to muslims in particular).

Here is a decent article explaining this if u wanna engage with it in good faith. There have been various debates on it and hadith is not considered accurate always, unlike the quran. The claim she was that young may have originated from sectarian divides among early muslims for whom virginity meant being “pure”. U dont really need to particularly agree with the claim that she was not 9yo as a total fact. The Bukhari hadiths saying she is 9 is very well accepted by a vast majority of rhe fundamentalist muslim word, but not everyone. Saying there is “no debate” at all is a factually wrong statement as well. And reduces all of a particular group of people as brainwashed fanatics who support the horror of child marriage.

https://newlinesmag.com/essays/oxford-study-sheds-light-on-muhammad-underage-wife-aisha/

So they attack a sovereign country unprovoked and in middle of negotiations, the country retaliates, and now they strike back claiming self defence? Great rule based order we have here. Fuck these murderous countries daring to call everyone else terrorists.

Well lets see how much germany cares about rule of law when its allies are the ones who decide not to follow it

I am not really sure if these Nazis are pushing their damn luck or are most Indians just happy breathing air that is poison, having beverages from eggs to milk that are fake, and giving all their wealth to billionaires as long as muslims keep getting killed

You know a state is fucked up if its alienating the biggest and most powerful terrorist state in the world

Was just browsing reddit and the amount of israeli simping is insane… just the sheer amount of money they have to spend on propaganda campaigns…. dismantle the terrorist dystopian state and the ideology its based on, one palestinian state with equal rights for all

You have ascended the mortal plane by then

Amendments welcome! I suppose those who argue in universities are even smaller brained… They should appreciate the impartial unbiased and thoroughly investigated academic rigor of youtube comments!

(Atleast) 5 civilians in exchange for 1 terrorist, and that too despite a ceasefire, imagine if a non US aligned state did this… one wud assume with their intelligence in military prowess they could easily carry out hyper precise assassinations rather than bombing a dense neighborhood, and these are the ones that claim palestinians and muslims are barbaric and subhuman, but as they say… every accusation is a confession

Exactly, many folks arnd me are more and more easily buying into conspiracy theories and stuff like “antisemitism doesnt exist” after israels insanity and its excuse of antisemitism… the word is slowly turning into a joke and sadly the innocent ones will suffer with the genocidal ethno state being one of the biggest reasons for it

Anyone outside of the of the US privileged goons who thought “gaza is not my problem” will soon realized what happened there isnt just a conflict, but a total annihilation of the supposed “international law”

Any country is now free to do whatever the fuck it wants if it can “donate” or “flatter” the rogue state of United states enough… Fuck russia israel and the US, and even the EU which keeps supporting these murdererers under the guise of “neutrality”

Have fun as we head back to a world where borders are decided by force and u can get wiped out because of following the wrong ideology or being the wrong ethnicity

When are we gonna start calling them terrorists?