✨️enshitification✨️

Yep, for these people Capitalism is the only thing that has ever existed and is the only thing that will ever exist, so there’s no point in advocating for better, as it can’t be better. Real “end of history” neoliberal bullshit.

I’m pretty sure they just operate on reflex. I say I think democratization of production is a good thing, they say that I’m suddenly a hardcore USSR Stan and want to Purge everyone who disagrees with a Supreme leader. I truly don’t think someone thinking coherently and logically can make these leaps, they must be purely operating on anti-socialist reflex.

They wouldn’t even answer straight when I asked which is better, a factory that is democratically controlled, or a factory that is owned solely by a Capitalist, then said I’m as dangerous as a fascist.

I certainly believe it! Colonization and Imperialism in particular have an absolutely brutal history. Japanese soldiers occupying China and Korea used to catch babies on bayonets, and had quotas for how many ears they cut off. Dutch occupiers of the Congo would cut off the hands of underperforming workers, including children, and give the hands to their parents.

The thing is, generally, humans are guided and shaped by material conditions, and material conditions improve with democratization and industrialization.

Yes, I agree with that crux, never disagreed with it. I still think it was functionally democratic, it’s not like the top controlled every aspect of society. Often times the elections with the most impact on your personal lives are the local elections, and that’s where Workers did in fact have control.

Again, though, I’ve never argued for repeating the USSR. I just think that we can learn from what worked and what didn’t to create a better system of leftist organization, and the fact that so much went right and so much went wrong is exceptionally useful data. We know what not to replicate democratically, and we know that guaranteeing Healthcare and education, and investing heavily in building residential plots and urbanization at the public level, does tremendous work in reducing poverty and homelessness.

At the end of the day, I’m NOT an ML, nor am I a USSR Stan. I’m a leftist, and more importantly I’m anti-tendency, and think each country will have a different path to worker liberation. As such, we should learn as much as possible from previous Socialist attempts and structures to create a better future.

Do you disagree with that notion?

Yep, I have found that just accepting one person’s words alone, especially in a field as politically charged as economics, is a terrible way to gain knowledge and understanding, just more misunderstanding. Pinker does a great job of being technically correct, but like the other commenters have pointed out, he is very careful of showing only some numbers and ignoring others, in order to massage a narrative that the status quo is flawed but ultimately not to be challenged.

There’s little that’s legitimately out of your control. Of course, I don’t mean 1 person can topple Capitalism or anything, but 1 person can set up a union, join a protest, or set up a co-operative farm, educate others, or make meaningful grassroots change.

1 person can make a big difference in the lives of the people around them.

Economic systems absolutely affect development, but again, you’re comparing a country that was a backwater nation completely undeveloped come the start of the 20th century with a country that has always been at or near the top of the list of industrialized nations. The starting points aren’t even in the slightest.

Secondly, the banning of alternative political parties was indeed antidemocratic, but the party didn’t select who you could vote for. Factions were banned by Lenin, supposed to be temporary, but this continued until 1989.

Historical accounts actually disagree with you saying candidates were preselected. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_democracy Pat Sloan in particular mentions that anyone could be elected, at the local level. Perhaps what you’re referring to is that those above the local Soviets were made up of those elected at local Soviets, and thus people couldn’t directly run for higher Soviets? Either way, definitely flawed, but not the same as what you’re saying.

Democracy is a sliding scale, I would say the Soviet Democratic model was still democratic, but less than many other countries. The US is technically more democratic, but many absolute positions cannot be voted on, such as the Supreme Court. There isn’t a currently existing country with fantastic democracy, unfortunately.

So charming 😍

It’s 2023 and trends have trajectories. This may be difficult to understand.

My problem is the opposite, normal teeth, small mouth! Haven’t ever been able to have braces until now, so I’m knocking it all out now. Hope everything goes well for you!

Yep, and his support is and always has been a minority.

They are facts. And, facts are additionally that more people voted in 2020 than 2016, and Trump lost both the popular and electoral vote in 2020.

Are you a bot?

I didn’t say she did. Biden got more votes in 2020 than Hillary did in 2016, because voter turnout was far larger in 2020. Increasingly, Gen Z is more okay with Socialism and actually prefers it over Capitalism, something unthinkable for Boomers and Gen X.

Yep, I’m grateful that I can fix what’s still there, it’s just unfortunate that teeth are luxury bones, and good health is a luxury in and of itself.

That’s blatantly bad-faith, Biden got more votes in 2020 than Hillary did as well. Voter participation was far higher.

What a dashing monke

Increasingly fewer people do.

1. We’ve already explained that your claim that workers owning tools = nobody works = starvation is pure mysticism. When pressed for why, you said people would work less automatically, which is wrong, especially considering co-operative farming has worked for as long as humanity has existed, and continues to do so. Additionally, you claimed they would be less stable, which was also proven false with my example of Worker co-operatives.

2. I’m not asking for the Soviet Union, you keep pushing that in there as though it’s the only way, and pretend that every problem the Soviet Union had must be repeated if Workers share tools. Its an utter fallacy.

3. Workers cannot consent to Capitalism, it exists regardless. That’s like saying peasants consented to Feudalism.

The very fact that you deliberately refused to answer why Factory 1, with the Capitalist ownership, was better than Factory 2 with democratic ownership, and instead dodged, proves me exactly correct: you have nothing to stand on and merely reflexively reject everything I say. You’re no different from a Monarchist during the French Revolution saying that workers wouldn’t have the ability to choose to be a serf under Capitalism.

Please, explain exactly why the democratically run factory is worse than the undemocratically run factory. If you’re going to continue to lie about what I’m saying and make absurd mystical claims, then I suppose I expected too much from an internet stranger.

Those people are dying out, which is more to my point.