• HumanBehaviorByBjork [any, undecided]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    29
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    1 year ago

    Hm, so you’re saying that every political faction “denies genocide and defends aggressive warmongering”? Could it perhaps be that every faction gets accused at one point or another of genocide and aggressive warmongering, and it’s your responsibility as a political person to use your brain to figure out who is lying?

    • Zagorath@aussie.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      so you’re saying that every political faction “denies genocide and defends aggressive warmongering”?

      No. Leftists who aren’t tankies don’t.

      • HumanBehaviorByBjork [any, undecided]@hexbear.net
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        27
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 year ago

        I’m a leftist who isn’t a tankie. I don’t much care about China and I think the struggle for liberation can only be fought where we are at. I don’t uncritically accept the propaganda and the worldview of the state I seek to destroy at face value. Thus I do not accept claims about “genocide” committed by the US’ main rival without good evidence. Having principles and critical faculties are important to my politics. What about you? What makes you, someone who identifies liberals as “center-left,” significantly different from them? Your conditional support for Palestinian liberation?

        • HumanBehaviorByBjork [any, undecided]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          22
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          1 year ago

          like, “such and such country is committing genocide and covering it up!” is a very serious claim! fortunately, it is also very incredible. it’s improbable that mass murder of a population can go almost totally unnoticed except for reports and evidence from sources that are demonstrably untrustworthy. Just knowing who Adrian Zenz is should be making you suspicious unless you’ve completely disabled your bullshit detectors.

        • Zagorath@aussie.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          I’m a leftist who isn’t a tankie

          To be clear. If you call yourself a leftist, and you pretend China isn’t committing genocide, that makes you a tanky. That’s what tankies are: people who claim to be leftists who support violent authoritarian regimes.

        • Zagorath@aussie.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          Thus I do not accept claims about “genocide” committed by the US’ main rival without good evidence

          It’s very easy to say this, because it means you can just reject any evidence to the contrary as “not good” or “biased”.

          Separating children from their parents. Raising them to be assimilated with the majority culture. Clamping down on their expression of their culture. These are all acts of genocide.

          The most untrustworthy source here is the Chinese government themselves. Any report from a country should be treated with scepticism, but none more so than when that country clamps down on the free press.

          We have so many reports out of Xinjiang. Leaks from people in the province itself. Reports from the family of people there. Evidence inferred from satellite imagery and what information is publicly available from the Chinese government. There’s just no denying it. You can choose to pretend China’s doing nothing wrong if you like. I hope you sleep well, knowing you’re defending genocide.

          • raven [he/him]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            25
            ·
            1 year ago

            It’s very easy to say this, because it means you can just reject any evidence to the contrary as “not good” or “biased”.

            Accusations of genocide aren’t a fucking game. It’s either happening or it isn’t. Either the evidence is good or the evidence is bad (and all evidence is biased) So give us some good evidence.

            • Zagorath@aussie.zone
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              What evidence would you accept? Because you act as though you’ve already convinced yourself it’s not real and wouldn’t accept any evidence to the contrary. What, precisely, would convince you that you’re wrong, if firsthand accounts aren’t good enough?

          • HumanBehaviorByBjork [any, undecided]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            25
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            “Freedom of the press” is a joke. I can see what our “free press” is doing with the butchery of Gaza. At a certain point you have to accept that your understanding of the facts is not, and has never been unmediated.

            Here is a good starting point if you want to understand the ways this has happened and more critically evaluate it.