To anyone shitting on Star Citizen, they’ve accomplished outstanding things:
-They’ve constantly been working on a budget that was only every a fraction of a budget for something like a AAA Star Wars game would get.
-A ton of the core mechanics had to be made from scratch, because the current industry standard would constrain the game.
-They swapped over to using what is close to a brand new game engine.
-They have steadily and slowly rolled out new core game mechanics
-They’re working on simulating an entire galaxy’s economy. Such as if an astroid is discovered to have a ton of valuable ore, neighboring planets and habitats see an increase in NPC population from people seeking work. This causes trade routes to shift over time, and hot spots for pirates and police move around to reflect this.
-You can download the game in its current state, and hop on see what they’ve created at any time.
I purchased their low tier $25 pledge package a few months after they officially started. It’s a $25 gamble, which personally seems very reasonable given what they stated their goals are, and what they’ve produced so far.
I’ve checked in on the game and played it about 3 times since then, and every single time I am absolutely blown away by what they’ve accomplished. So much that the last time I tried it about 4 years ago, I bought 2 entry level flight joysticks for about $100. It was unbelievably fun and immersive.
Last time i tried it, me and a group of about 6 friends all gathered at a space port. One of us had purchased a medium size well rounded utility ship, and fitted it out nicely. We all piled in, and that same friend who also has 2 joysticks flew us off to a new mission they just released. The equivalent of a huge rich people’s size yacht in space got boarded by pirates and taken control of the ship. We had to fly in, take out pirate ships together as a crew mounting various guns and copilot seats. Find a small airlock, swing the ship around, all don an EV suit, open our back cargo door, and egress across to the door, open it, split up in groups to eliminate the pirates first person shooter style, and collect our in game $ reward. None of this was instanced either. At any moment a player RPing as a pirate could of swooped in and ruined our plan.
Yes it’s not all roses, either. They’ve struggled a lot with scope creep and timelines/roadmaps. Idk if they’ve changed, but Chris Roberts being solely in charge hasn’t been a very stable foundation to build off of. Certain bits could be worked on and after he tested them he could 180 and say the new idea better suited his vision. And the single player campaign, as awesome as it looks, was an absolute mess of missed deadlines and promises. Again, the last time I paid any attention to their progress was years ago. Still 0 regrets on my $25 spent.
I feel like you’re giving them entirely too much credit here. The things in your list are in my opinion either not that outstanding, or they haven’t actually accomplished them yet:
-They’ve constantly been working on a budget that was only every a fraction of a budget for something like a AAA Star Wars game would get.
Already discussed in a comment below, but this is just demonstrably not true. Their development costs so far are the second highest of all time. Maybe there were some periods where money was tight, but that’s pretty irrelevant to me. More relevant is what they’ve delivered with all that money.
-A ton of the core mechanics had to be made from scratch, because the current industry standard would constrain the game
I’m not 100% sure what this even means. Like, It’s pretty common for games to make their own mechanics, if you’re not Ubisoft. This is not that special.
-They swapped over to using what is close to a brand new game engine.
Swapping engines sure is tough to do, but this is generally not a good sign. The only reasons to change engines partway through is either you’re in development so long that the engine is too outdated to deliver an acceptable game, or the scope of the game has changed so much the engine is no longer suitable. I don’t know which one applies here, but either way it’s just a ton of wasted work.
-They have steadily and slowly rolled out new core game mechanics
I mean, good I guess but that’s sort of the expected standard for early access? Not what I’d call outstanding
-They’re working on simulating an entire galaxy’s economy.
“Working on” is doing an awful lot of lifting in that sentence. So they haven’t actually accomplished this thing yet? Is the asteroid thing you’re describing already in the game? I’m also really sceptical of “an entire galaxy.” How big is the galaxy currently? A real life galaxy is 100 billion stars. They’re not going to have a 100 billion stars, right?
-You can download the game in its current state, and hop on see what they’ve created at any time.
Outstanding accomplishment. You can download and play the game, wow. I sure would hope so after all these years.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean to shit on Star Citizen. If you paid money and you’re having fun playing it and feel you’re getting your money’s worth, who am I to object?
Where I do object is, fans of the game seemingly often evaluate the game based on the promises the development team makes, rather than what they have actually delivered. What the team promises is awesomely impressive. What the game currently offers is… not that.
Excellent points! Just want to iterate, I’m not a mega fan or anything close. Just saw this thread was a “SC scam” circle-jerk of sorts, and wanted to provide some counter-info from someone who has played, and in the past did a fair amount of reading and watching their more technical posts.
When I say mechanics from scratch, I mean there is no industry standard they can copy, ex: Like true zero 0g in space piloting, with 0 aerodynamics, then flying down to a planet where those start to exist. They had a blog post about having to overcome that.
As far as the economy goes, years ago they had a more technical video where their top guy doing the (architecture, engineering?) was explaining and showing live examples of a very basic version working. Blew my mind and made me appreciate their goal.
Engine swap was basically an upgrade they realized they would need for the scope of the game. IIRC, they went from CryEngine to Lumberyard, which is a custom CryEngine reworked to be an excellent match specifically for Amazon’s AWS from what I can tell.
I’m just using the word galaxy from a sci-fi point of view. Not a literal galaxy size with an unfathomable amount of stars, planets, etc.
4 years ago the default answer for why it’s taking so long is always they have to create multiple tools and programs to be able to create what they want at the scale they want. Like not every planet can be hand crafted, they need to create a program that is able to create 100s of planets and have them be unique, and fast.
I personally view all their promises and hype from the view of coming from a potential con-man, whose vision is everything I’d ever want in what is IMO, going to be a big MMO. And I’m personally pleasently surprised with what they’ve created so far, including looks into the tools they’re making. As of 4 years ago when I last looked.
I feel like trying to say that they are objectively a scam is dishonest. If someone is curious, check it out on Twitch, go through their blogs and YouTubes of them showing off their work in progress tools. Decide if you wanna risk $40 or not. Which I’d argue is a fair amount considering how much content there is now, that I’ve enjoyed in the past. It’s not an excuse, but Early Access gaves have launched with far less, and much less stable or optimized.
That’s not a starting budget. That’s been a rolling budget for like 15+ years now. There’s been articles and discussions I read when I last checked in that came to the conclusion they’ve had long stretches where they were spread thin on $.
Edit: big brain quick maths was wrong, it’s been like ~10ish years?
Let’s use Cyberpunk 2077 as a comparison. They’ve spent about $450m over the course of about 10 years. Literally one of the most expensive games ever produced with an unreasonably long development time.
Start Citizen has already taken longer and has a larger budget.
To anyone shitting on Star Citizen, they’ve accomplished outstanding things:
-They’ve constantly been working on a budget that was only every a fraction of a budget for something like a AAA Star Wars game would get.
-A ton of the core mechanics had to be made from scratch, because the current industry standard would constrain the game.
-They swapped over to using what is close to a brand new game engine.
-They have steadily and slowly rolled out new core game mechanics
-They’re working on simulating an entire galaxy’s economy. Such as if an astroid is discovered to have a ton of valuable ore, neighboring planets and habitats see an increase in NPC population from people seeking work. This causes trade routes to shift over time, and hot spots for pirates and police move around to reflect this.
-You can download the game in its current state, and hop on see what they’ve created at any time.
I purchased their low tier $25 pledge package a few months after they officially started. It’s a $25 gamble, which personally seems very reasonable given what they stated their goals are, and what they’ve produced so far.
I’ve checked in on the game and played it about 3 times since then, and every single time I am absolutely blown away by what they’ve accomplished. So much that the last time I tried it about 4 years ago, I bought 2 entry level flight joysticks for about $100. It was unbelievably fun and immersive.
Last time i tried it, me and a group of about 6 friends all gathered at a space port. One of us had purchased a medium size well rounded utility ship, and fitted it out nicely. We all piled in, and that same friend who also has 2 joysticks flew us off to a new mission they just released. The equivalent of a huge rich people’s size yacht in space got boarded by pirates and taken control of the ship. We had to fly in, take out pirate ships together as a crew mounting various guns and copilot seats. Find a small airlock, swing the ship around, all don an EV suit, open our back cargo door, and egress across to the door, open it, split up in groups to eliminate the pirates first person shooter style, and collect our in game $ reward. None of this was instanced either. At any moment a player RPing as a pirate could of swooped in and ruined our plan.
Yes it’s not all roses, either. They’ve struggled a lot with scope creep and timelines/roadmaps. Idk if they’ve changed, but Chris Roberts being solely in charge hasn’t been a very stable foundation to build off of. Certain bits could be worked on and after he tested them he could 180 and say the new idea better suited his vision. And the single player campaign, as awesome as it looks, was an absolute mess of missed deadlines and promises. Again, the last time I paid any attention to their progress was years ago. Still 0 regrets on my $25 spent.
I feel like you’re giving them entirely too much credit here. The things in your list are in my opinion either not that outstanding, or they haven’t actually accomplished them yet:
Already discussed in a comment below, but this is just demonstrably not true. Their development costs so far are the second highest of all time. Maybe there were some periods where money was tight, but that’s pretty irrelevant to me. More relevant is what they’ve delivered with all that money.
I’m not 100% sure what this even means. Like, It’s pretty common for games to make their own mechanics, if you’re not Ubisoft. This is not that special.
Swapping engines sure is tough to do, but this is generally not a good sign. The only reasons to change engines partway through is either you’re in development so long that the engine is too outdated to deliver an acceptable game, or the scope of the game has changed so much the engine is no longer suitable. I don’t know which one applies here, but either way it’s just a ton of wasted work.
I mean, good I guess but that’s sort of the expected standard for early access? Not what I’d call outstanding
“Working on” is doing an awful lot of lifting in that sentence. So they haven’t actually accomplished this thing yet? Is the asteroid thing you’re describing already in the game? I’m also really sceptical of “an entire galaxy.” How big is the galaxy currently? A real life galaxy is 100 billion stars. They’re not going to have a 100 billion stars, right?
Outstanding accomplishment. You can download and play the game, wow. I sure would hope so after all these years.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean to shit on Star Citizen. If you paid money and you’re having fun playing it and feel you’re getting your money’s worth, who am I to object?
Where I do object is, fans of the game seemingly often evaluate the game based on the promises the development team makes, rather than what they have actually delivered. What the team promises is awesomely impressive. What the game currently offers is… not that.
Excellent points! Just want to iterate, I’m not a mega fan or anything close. Just saw this thread was a “SC scam” circle-jerk of sorts, and wanted to provide some counter-info from someone who has played, and in the past did a fair amount of reading and watching their more technical posts.
When I say mechanics from scratch, I mean there is no industry standard they can copy, ex: Like true zero 0g in space piloting, with 0 aerodynamics, then flying down to a planet where those start to exist. They had a blog post about having to overcome that.
As far as the economy goes, years ago they had a more technical video where their top guy doing the (architecture, engineering?) was explaining and showing live examples of a very basic version working. Blew my mind and made me appreciate their goal.
Engine swap was basically an upgrade they realized they would need for the scope of the game. IIRC, they went from CryEngine to Lumberyard, which is a custom CryEngine reworked to be an excellent match specifically for Amazon’s AWS from what I can tell.
I’m just using the word galaxy from a sci-fi point of view. Not a literal galaxy size with an unfathomable amount of stars, planets, etc.
4 years ago the default answer for why it’s taking so long is always they have to create multiple tools and programs to be able to create what they want at the scale they want. Like not every planet can be hand crafted, they need to create a program that is able to create 100s of planets and have them be unique, and fast.
I personally view all their promises and hype from the view of coming from a potential con-man, whose vision is everything I’d ever want in what is IMO, going to be a big MMO. And I’m personally pleasently surprised with what they’ve created so far, including looks into the tools they’re making. As of 4 years ago when I last looked.
I feel like trying to say that they are objectively a scam is dishonest. If someone is curious, check it out on Twitch, go through their blogs and YouTubes of them showing off their work in progress tools. Decide if you wanna risk $40 or not. Which I’d argue is a fair amount considering how much content there is now, that I’ve enjoyed in the past. It’s not an excuse, but Early Access gaves have launched with far less, and much less stable or optimized.
I couldn’t even get past this. As of last May they’ve raised over $700m.
That’s not a starting budget. That’s been a rolling budget for like
15+years now. There’s been articles and discussions I read when I last checked in that came to the conclusion they’ve had long stretches where they were spread thin on $.Edit: big brain quick maths was wrong, it’s been like ~10ish years?
How about some perspective?
Let’s use Cyberpunk 2077 as a comparison. They’ve spent about $450m over the course of about 10 years. Literally one of the most expensive games ever produced with an unreasonably long development time.
Start Citizen has already taken longer and has a larger budget.
Cyberpunk is one city, and a very impressive one. A far cry from the goal of a life sim in an entire galaxy, though.