Can’t really relate, because I am only 24yo. Rant incoming;
Though I am sort of reluctant to try dating. In the past, I tried dating apps but they yielded no results. The women I matched with all ghosted me. Really did a number on my self-esteem. Who knows? Maybe I’ve got the face for radio?
And in all honesty, it feels like I’ve got to abide by ridiculous standards. The likes of being buff and tall, owning a car and house, a 6-figure salary, etc. I am still studying and trying to get my bachelor degree. All of these requirements put a ton of pressure on me. Is every woman looking for that? Of course not—that’s not what I am implying. But from my personal experience it’s certainly starting to feel that way.
Not surprised why redpill content is booming. They’re not right, but there is truth to be found in some of their statements. In the end, I do introspection to identify my flaws and improve on myself. Nevertheless, even by doing all of that it feels like it’s never enough.
There are so many benign reasons you can reject someone.
Maybe you just deleted the app because you’re done with trying for now.
Maybe you like someone but move on because things just got serious someone else you found first.
Maybe you like someone but there’s some dealbreaker like distance or having kids or something else random they have a bias about.
Maybe you reject someone without thinking there’s anything wrong with them, you just don’t feel compatible.
And yeah some people will reject you because you’re not rich or your looks aren’t perfect, that happens too, but only a small percentage of people are rich or look perfect, you just have to make peace with not being that. Just about everyone else is in the same boat.
Don’t let incel types cause you to shape your impression of why you’re being rejected and turn it into a reason to hate a whole gender. Some of them have shitty standards, sure, but don’t turn it into a rule about them. That leads to a downward spiral.
Don’t let incel types cause you to shape your impression of why you’re being rejected and turn it into a reason to hate a whole gender. Some of them have shitty standards, sure, but don’t turn it into a rule about them. That leads to a downward spiral.
Absolutely, I agree. What I was trying to convey is that to me it never feels like I am enough. I know rejection is part of the game. However, it does hit hard—it affects my self-esteem. That is my problem and I need to work on that.
Still, I think you can agree there is a lot of competition going on. It’s axiomatic that there are more men on dating apps than women. That leaves me at a disadvantage. To make matters worse, these apps are designed to judge someone based on looks. I am pretty fit, though nowhere near extremely strong. Just plain average.
I don’t blame women for choosing the top percent of men on these apps (if the roles were reversed I would’ve likely done the same). Yet for someone the likes of me the only winning move is not to play.
Also, I am no misogynist. I don’t abhor women for being rejected. They don’t owe me anything. That is not to say that I don’t find the process of finding a love companion difficult.
Absolutely, I agree. What I was trying to convey is that to me it never feels like I am enough.
I hear you. I absolutely hated most of my twenties and teen years due to loneliness. But, it’s important to remember that online dating platforms are pure garbage. They are run by business people with business goals, not to actually help people connect and find lasting relationships - that loses them customers. Not to mention the vapid, shallow culture that has been cultivate, by those running them. The number of bots and plain awful people that you are lucky to avoid is ridiculously high because many are little more than scams to extract money from lonely guys.
I know rejection is part of the game.
That’s part of the beauty of being a human that these companies desperately try to hide. We have the choice to not play the bullshit games. It makes life much nicer.
However, it does hit hard—it affects my self-esteem. That is my problem and I need to work on that.
I know this experily. You are a worthwhile human being, and deserve love and happiness. Sure, I’m just some random dude on the internet and you have no reason to believe anything that I type or the sincerity on my words but, it’s true.
So much of what is pushed in modern culture is done so just for the sake of making people miserable so that they buy more bullshit. Rom-coms are the fucking worst (though I do still enjoy them occassionally). Everything in them surrounding masculinity and courtship is pure dysfunctional, toxic drek.
Want a functional, loving relationship that will last? Find someone who is compatible and has shared interests. If you are not driven by competition and conquest, don’t “chase” someone who doesn’t show interest - it’s a waste of your time and will probably make them uncomfortable. If you are, get your peacocking and fashion game on-point.There is no one way of finding a good partner except for being your best you and ignoring 99% of pop culture romance.
Hone yourself into the version of you that you most want to be and the people who appreciate that find your traits, interests, and personality attractive will likely come into your life as a natural consequence of your actions.
All the best for a very happy New Year. Keep rocking and being your badass self.
Thank you for the lovely words. Really appreciate it! Sympathehic people like you are the true heroes without capes.
Everything you said resonated with me. This world is messed up, though we ought to be careful to let it define us. After all, we dictate our lives. I’ll continue my quest of finding a lasting, functional, loving relationship.
I’m glad that I could be of help. One recommendation that I would have is to reframe that from a quest into something more of a journey. Yes, it is what you desire but, from personal experience, treating it as a central goal in life can make it easy to miss the forest for the trees, risk staying in poor matches, and may make it more of a challenge to find a compatible partner.
For the first to, you may overlook or be overlooked by potential matches due to focusing on the idealized goal. This also means potentially getting caught in a poor or potentially abusive relationship for lack of seeing that things could be better. Additionally, successful relationships take interpersonal skills and self-knowledge that are hard to develop without experience - think of the proverb of two potters, one spending a year, making the best pot that they can, the other spending a month on each pot. The second potter will likely end up more skilled and making a better pot due to the learnings of multiple failures over the year. It’s similar with any skill in reality; trying and failing with relationships is a good thing because it gives you more data to work with.
Finally, try to think about what things may be like from the perspective of a potential partner. Would you want to be with someone whose life goals were “be in a relationship” or someone who wants to invent something, or see places seldom seen by others, or contribute to the understanding of the natural universe, or play music and make friends in the local community, or help neglected animals, or have a blast painting tiny monster figurines. Trying to be the you that you want to be and is in line with your interests and ideals will make you more interesting to others, including potential relationship partners.
It’s easy for nerdy guys to get caught up in things and fall into traps of despair and loneliness - I know from experience, which is why I try to lend support and advice to others. But, being nerdy is also a bit of an advantage, despite pop culture overtures to the contrary. Being interested in unusual thing can make you interesting.
Yeah, it is rough, but keep in mind dating is hard for most people so it’s less of a you problem than your brain want to make it feel like.
And don’t think of it as being a “top” person or not. It’s healthier and more accurate to think of it as compatibility. There’s not a linear scale of people. When someone’s interested in you (for the right reason) it’s because you work together as people, not because you’re the best person they can get and vice versa.
You’re not misogynistic, but watch out for the people who try to portray dating as more adversarial than it is so they can profit from amplifying our insecurities.
The problem with dating apps is about the app themselves mostly. They promote shitty behaviours.
When you’re ghosted, it çan be from 3 reasons: you’re actually ghosted ; the person is no more on the app ; the person didn’t really looked at your profile, or it has too many matches.
It is very hard on self esteem and on your appreciation of the other sex.
Dating apps are crap. You literally have a higher success rate walking up to a random person at a bar than with a first message on Tinder. They could be a good tool, but we live in capitalism so they are made to extract as much profit as possible, even if that means promoting toxic, mental-health-crushing behaviours.
It’s important to understand that being on dating apps is not the same as dating in real life. We often see people in more superficial ways on apps and judge them in a way we wouldn’t necessarily do in real life.
Women looking at men that way in dating apps is definitely a reflection on how they do in real life but it’s amplified quite a bit.
Men are the same. How many times have you swiped left on a girl just because you didn’t think she was attractive? She seemed really cool and like someone you’d get along with but she just wasn’t attractive.
This again is a reflection on how men view women in real life but amplified. In real life you wouldn’t be that harsh.
It’s important to stay grounded and remember that everyone is just a stupid human who thinks they know what they want and may put high expectations on someone but often doesn’t take a moment to think ‘Am I all that though?’
How many times have you swiped left on a girl just because you didn’t think she was attractive?
Zero times. Always swiped right to increase my chance of getting matches. Didn’t use some hookup app the likes of Tinder either. Used OkCupid since I heard good stories of it at the time.
I am well aware I may be an outlier. I know other men certainly do swipe left.
Though I agree with your points. After all, we’re all thinking like troglodytes at times. We set unrealistic expectations. Think social media skewed our views of what’s realistic and what is not.
Well, right about online stuff. I would also have ridiculous standards if there were 10x more women than men.
Just expand your social circle and eventually you’ll meet normal people XD
Man, I can relate, I was in a bad way when I was 24. I was very lonely and dangerously far down the incel path (though nobody called it that then) before I snapped out of it.
What I wish I had understood then is just how vast the bredth of human experience is. It may be hard to imagine right now given experiences you’ve had, but there are a lot of women who would be into you if given the chance. I know this is true because women are people. Quite a few of them are into men, of those quite a few are available and also yearning for a connection, and of those quite a few still are into some of your interests and particularly like various traits that describe you.
Rejection can be hard, but it only means it’s not just right just now for just her, not that there’s anything wrong with you.
I am older. You want to hear me? Stop giving a shit about them altogether. What I mean by this is love yourself and focus on yourself. Women love psychological manipulation and think they are the hot shit, until they start going “good guy”-less by their 30s and the “beauty” starts to subside. Too much high school teen garbage, and most have not mentally grown out of it.
I will just enlighten you with the Tears Of Rain scene from Blade Runner. It changed my perspective on life. Men do not shine as bright, but men shine for all their lives, and this is all that western feminist man-hating ideology is formulated around to counter.
Oh, and you need no redpill or any pill to understand this. Just avoid the “bluepill” or garbage aimed to diss on men and masculinity. True masculinity (said by certain kind of people to be toxic) is about resilience, emotional control, inner strength, confidence and the ability to withstand life’s hardships without resorting to insecurity (dissing manhood) or abusive behaviours (psychological manipulation). The whole societal game is played in heads and with physical seduction techniques.
You will do better by watching Robert Greene’s relevant podcast talks and Dr. Huberman’s talk on the Science of Love, Desire and Attraction. Some masterclass style long podcasts of Matthew Hussey are also great, since he does cater to women for dating scene.
I love when the argument is to always shittalk, diss or just “redpill” label everything, even though real world tells us social media delusions are meaningless.
I will be honest. I am starting to think leftists aren’t the true opposite of rightwing lunatics, and there is also a lack of reasoning and selective empathy on the polar side. Or maybe its that there are too many leftists I keep encountering that love their trash talking, labelling and cancelling business.
Your theories are dehumanizing women. Women are not a consistent whole. When I hear you talk, it feels like watching a documentary about Siberian wolves at 4 AM on TV.
I’m not going to attempt to cancel you or anything quite like that… but you’re full of shit. Real women are NOTHING like you describe. Stop pursuing shallow Instagram “influencers” and you might find peace. The Internet (and Tinder) is not the real world.
And by being so whiny and paranoid, you’re being the opposite of the good masculine type you’re preaching about.
What are “real” women? The feminist movement on social media? Younger generation or the older generations of women? If you think that is dehumanising women, just know how much men have been dehumanised for ever, by a complete disregard for their emotional sanctity, which is as sacred as a woman’s physical sanctity, which we care so much about.
I am tired of hearing how women have been oppressed, and people acting like all men are royal/elite capitalist oppressors, and men have faced nothing, when the reality is that men have built this world and women have built the world within houses.
All I have seen is double standards whenever men’s issues need to be talked about versus women’s issues. Mental health issues, women pedophiles/predators versus men pedophiles/predators, or male SA versus female SA, military recruitments, physical risk jobs like ones at construction sites, women publicly allowed to get away with sexual harassment or roadside flirting, or men being called creeps for being nice to children but women are “inclusive” and never creepy, et al. And any debate is intentionally and dishonestly avoided by women and feminists on these things by clustering men’s rights with redpill manosphere movement.
We are getting tired of hearing we are toxic, disposable and physical tools for others. And I must tell you this – the devolving and rotting feminist movement is exactly what is causing the explosion of the other extreme end, redpillers. A lot of people are starting to disapprove of these extremes.
Men are not “toxic” because they are not as emotionally charged or like vulnerability. Men are simply hardwired to be more resilient, calm, less hysterical, and protect their emotional sanctity the exact way women protect their physical sanctity.
Inclusivity by excluding men is not an inclusive initiative for society, it is just a lighter version of gender based fascism.
All I have seen is double standards whenever men’s issues need to be talked about versus women’s issues. Mental health issues, women pedophiles/predators versus men pedophiles/predators, or male SA versus female SA, military recruitments, physical risk jobs like ones at construction sites, women publicly allowed to get away with sexual harassment or roadside flirting, or men being called creeps for being nice to children but women are “inclusive” and never creepy, et al.
I thought you said men built this world. Now you have a problem with the way the world runs? Sounds like some pinko leftist feminist hooey.
All I have seen is double standards whenever men’s issues need to be talked about versus women’s issues. Mental health issues, women pedophiles/predators versus men pedophiles/predators, or male SA versus female SA, military recruitments, physical risk jobs like ones at construction sites, women publicly allowed to get away with sexual harassment or roadside flirting, or men being called creeps for being nice to children but women are “inclusive” and never creepy, et al.
Wait, I thought you said men built this world. Now you have a problem with the way the world runs? Sounds like some pinko leftist feminist hooey.
Can’t really relate, because I am only 24yo. Rant incoming;
Though I am sort of reluctant to try dating. In the past, I tried dating apps but they yielded no results. The women I matched with all ghosted me. Really did a number on my self-esteem. Who knows? Maybe I’ve got the face for radio?
And in all honesty, it feels like I’ve got to abide by ridiculous standards. The likes of being buff and tall, owning a car and house, a 6-figure salary, etc. I am still studying and trying to get my bachelor degree. All of these requirements put a ton of pressure on me. Is every woman looking for that? Of course not—that’s not what I am implying. But from my personal experience it’s certainly starting to feel that way.
Not surprised why redpill content is booming. They’re not right, but there is truth to be found in some of their statements. In the end, I do introspection to identify my flaws and improve on myself. Nevertheless, even by doing all of that it feels like it’s never enough.
There are so many benign reasons you can reject someone.
Maybe you just deleted the app because you’re done with trying for now.
Maybe you like someone but move on because things just got serious someone else you found first.
Maybe you like someone but there’s some dealbreaker like distance or having kids or something else random they have a bias about.
Maybe you reject someone without thinking there’s anything wrong with them, you just don’t feel compatible.
And yeah some people will reject you because you’re not rich or your looks aren’t perfect, that happens too, but only a small percentage of people are rich or look perfect, you just have to make peace with not being that. Just about everyone else is in the same boat.
Don’t let incel types cause you to shape your impression of why you’re being rejected and turn it into a reason to hate a whole gender. Some of them have shitty standards, sure, but don’t turn it into a rule about them. That leads to a downward spiral.
Absolutely, I agree. What I was trying to convey is that to me it never feels like I am enough. I know rejection is part of the game. However, it does hit hard—it affects my self-esteem. That is my problem and I need to work on that.
Still, I think you can agree there is a lot of competition going on. It’s axiomatic that there are more men on dating apps than women. That leaves me at a disadvantage. To make matters worse, these apps are designed to judge someone based on looks. I am pretty fit, though nowhere near extremely strong. Just plain average.
I don’t blame women for choosing the top percent of men on these apps (if the roles were reversed I would’ve likely done the same). Yet for someone the likes of me the only winning move is not to play.
Also, I am no misogynist. I don’t abhor women for being rejected. They don’t owe me anything. That is not to say that I don’t find the process of finding a love companion difficult.
Wish you a wonderful Happy New Year bud!
I hear you. I absolutely hated most of my twenties and teen years due to loneliness. But, it’s important to remember that online dating platforms are pure garbage. They are run by business people with business goals, not to actually help people connect and find lasting relationships - that loses them customers. Not to mention the vapid, shallow culture that has been cultivate, by those running them. The number of bots and plain awful people that you are lucky to avoid is ridiculously high because many are little more than scams to extract money from lonely guys.
That’s part of the beauty of being a human that these companies desperately try to hide. We have the choice to not play the bullshit games. It makes life much nicer.
I know this experily. You are a worthwhile human being, and deserve love and happiness. Sure, I’m just some random dude on the internet and you have no reason to believe anything that I type or the sincerity on my words but, it’s true.
So much of what is pushed in modern culture is done so just for the sake of making people miserable so that they buy more bullshit. Rom-coms are the fucking worst (though I do still enjoy them occassionally). Everything in them surrounding masculinity and courtship is pure dysfunctional, toxic drek.
Want a functional, loving relationship that will last? Find someone who is compatible and has shared interests. If you are not driven by competition and conquest, don’t “chase” someone who doesn’t show interest - it’s a waste of your time and will probably make them uncomfortable. If you are, get your peacocking and fashion game on-point.There is no one way of finding a good partner except for being your best you and ignoring 99% of pop culture romance.
Hone yourself into the version of you that you most want to be and the people who appreciate that find your traits, interests, and personality attractive will likely come into your life as a natural consequence of your actions.
All the best for a very happy New Year. Keep rocking and being your badass self.
Thank you for the lovely words. Really appreciate it! Sympathehic people like you are the true heroes without capes.
Everything you said resonated with me. This world is messed up, though we ought to be careful to let it define us. After all, we dictate our lives. I’ll continue my quest of finding a lasting, functional, loving relationship.
Wish you a splendid New Year!
I’m glad that I could be of help. One recommendation that I would have is to reframe that from a quest into something more of a journey. Yes, it is what you desire but, from personal experience, treating it as a central goal in life can make it easy to miss the forest for the trees, risk staying in poor matches, and may make it more of a challenge to find a compatible partner.
For the first to, you may overlook or be overlooked by potential matches due to focusing on the idealized goal. This also means potentially getting caught in a poor or potentially abusive relationship for lack of seeing that things could be better. Additionally, successful relationships take interpersonal skills and self-knowledge that are hard to develop without experience - think of the proverb of two potters, one spending a year, making the best pot that they can, the other spending a month on each pot. The second potter will likely end up more skilled and making a better pot due to the learnings of multiple failures over the year. It’s similar with any skill in reality; trying and failing with relationships is a good thing because it gives you more data to work with.
Finally, try to think about what things may be like from the perspective of a potential partner. Would you want to be with someone whose life goals were “be in a relationship” or someone who wants to invent something, or see places seldom seen by others, or contribute to the understanding of the natural universe, or play music and make friends in the local community, or help neglected animals, or have a blast painting tiny monster figurines. Trying to be the you that you want to be and is in line with your interests and ideals will make you more interesting to others, including potential relationship partners.
It’s easy for nerdy guys to get caught up in things and fall into traps of despair and loneliness - I know from experience, which is why I try to lend support and advice to others. But, being nerdy is also a bit of an advantage, despite pop culture overtures to the contrary. Being interested in unusual thing can make you interesting.
Yeah, it is rough, but keep in mind dating is hard for most people so it’s less of a you problem than your brain want to make it feel like.
And don’t think of it as being a “top” person or not. It’s healthier and more accurate to think of it as compatibility. There’s not a linear scale of people. When someone’s interested in you (for the right reason) it’s because you work together as people, not because you’re the best person they can get and vice versa.
You’re not misogynistic, but watch out for the people who try to portray dating as more adversarial than it is so they can profit from amplifying our insecurities.
The problem with dating apps is about the app themselves mostly. They promote shitty behaviours.
When you’re ghosted, it çan be from 3 reasons: you’re actually ghosted ; the person is no more on the app ; the person didn’t really looked at your profile, or it has too many matches.
It is very hard on self esteem and on your appreciation of the other sex.
Dating apps are crap. You literally have a higher success rate walking up to a random person at a bar than with a first message on Tinder. They could be a good tool, but we live in capitalism so they are made to extract as much profit as possible, even if that means promoting toxic, mental-health-crushing behaviours.
It’s important to understand that being on dating apps is not the same as dating in real life. We often see people in more superficial ways on apps and judge them in a way we wouldn’t necessarily do in real life.
Women looking at men that way in dating apps is definitely a reflection on how they do in real life but it’s amplified quite a bit.
Men are the same. How many times have you swiped left on a girl just because you didn’t think she was attractive? She seemed really cool and like someone you’d get along with but she just wasn’t attractive.
This again is a reflection on how men view women in real life but amplified. In real life you wouldn’t be that harsh.
It’s important to stay grounded and remember that everyone is just a stupid human who thinks they know what they want and may put high expectations on someone but often doesn’t take a moment to think ‘Am I all that though?’
Zero times. Always swiped right to increase my chance of getting matches. Didn’t use some hookup app the likes of Tinder either. Used OkCupid since I heard good stories of it at the time.
I am well aware I may be an outlier. I know other men certainly do swipe left.
Though I agree with your points. After all, we’re all thinking like troglodytes at times. We set unrealistic expectations. Think social media skewed our views of what’s realistic and what is not.
Well, right about online stuff. I would also have ridiculous standards if there were 10x more women than men. Just expand your social circle and eventually you’ll meet normal people XD
Man, I can relate, I was in a bad way when I was 24. I was very lonely and dangerously far down the incel path (though nobody called it that then) before I snapped out of it.
What I wish I had understood then is just how vast the bredth of human experience is. It may be hard to imagine right now given experiences you’ve had, but there are a lot of women who would be into you if given the chance. I know this is true because women are people. Quite a few of them are into men, of those quite a few are available and also yearning for a connection, and of those quite a few still are into some of your interests and particularly like various traits that describe you.
Rejection can be hard, but it only means it’s not just right just now for just her, not that there’s anything wrong with you.
I am older. You want to hear me? Stop giving a shit about them altogether. What I mean by this is love yourself and focus on yourself. Women love psychological manipulation and think they are the hot shit, until they start going “good guy”-less by their 30s and the “beauty” starts to subside. Too much high school teen garbage, and most have not mentally grown out of it.
I will just enlighten you with the Tears Of Rain scene from Blade Runner. It changed my perspective on life. Men do not shine as bright, but men shine for all their lives, and this is all that western feminist man-hating ideology is formulated around to counter.
Oh, and you need no redpill or any pill to understand this. Just avoid the “bluepill” or garbage aimed to diss on men and masculinity. True masculinity (said by certain kind of people to be toxic) is about resilience, emotional control, inner strength, confidence and the ability to withstand life’s hardships without resorting to insecurity (dissing manhood) or abusive behaviours (psychological manipulation). The whole societal game is played in heads and with physical seduction techniques.
You will do better by watching Robert Greene’s relevant podcast talks and Dr. Huberman’s talk on the Science of Love, Desire and Attraction. Some masterclass style long podcasts of Matthew Hussey are also great, since he does cater to women for dating scene.
Oh hey it’s that redpill content they were warning me about!
I love when the argument is to always shittalk, diss or just “redpill” label everything, even though real world tells us social media delusions are meaningless.
I will be honest. I am starting to think leftists aren’t the true opposite of rightwing lunatics, and there is also a lack of reasoning and selective empathy on the polar side. Or maybe its that there are too many leftists I keep encountering that love their trash talking, labelling and cancelling business.
Your theories are dehumanizing women. Women are not a consistent whole. When I hear you talk, it feels like watching a documentary about Siberian wolves at 4 AM on TV.
I’m not going to attempt to cancel you or anything quite like that… but you’re full of shit. Real women are NOTHING like you describe. Stop pursuing shallow Instagram “influencers” and you might find peace. The Internet (and Tinder) is not the real world.
And by being so whiny and paranoid, you’re being the opposite of the good masculine type you’re preaching about.
What are “real” women? The feminist movement on social media? Younger generation or the older generations of women? If you think that is dehumanising women, just know how much men have been dehumanised for ever, by a complete disregard for their emotional sanctity, which is as sacred as a woman’s physical sanctity, which we care so much about.
I am tired of hearing how women have been oppressed, and people acting like all men are royal/elite capitalist oppressors, and men have faced nothing, when the reality is that men have built this world and women have built the world within houses.
All I have seen is double standards whenever men’s issues need to be talked about versus women’s issues. Mental health issues, women pedophiles/predators versus men pedophiles/predators, or male SA versus female SA, military recruitments, physical risk jobs like ones at construction sites, women publicly allowed to get away with sexual harassment or roadside flirting, or men being called creeps for being nice to children but women are “inclusive” and never creepy, et al. And any debate is intentionally and dishonestly avoided by women and feminists on these things by clustering men’s rights with redpill manosphere movement.
We are getting tired of hearing we are toxic, disposable and physical tools for others. And I must tell you this – the devolving and rotting feminist movement is exactly what is causing the explosion of the other extreme end, redpillers. A lot of people are starting to disapprove of these extremes.
Men are not “toxic” because they are not as emotionally charged or like vulnerability. Men are simply hardwired to be more resilient, calm, less hysterical, and protect their emotional sanctity the exact way women protect their physical sanctity.
Inclusivity by excluding men is not an inclusive initiative for society, it is just a lighter version of gender based fascism.
I thought you said men built this world. Now you have a problem with the way the world runs? Sounds like some pinko leftist feminist hooey.
Wait, I thought you said men built this world. Now you have a problem with the way the world runs? Sounds like some pinko leftist feminist hooey.
Oh my god.
You realize this diagram implies that refuting the central point is built on name-calling and ad-hominems, right? xD